Friday, May 16, 2008

Raid DPS as Survival

So, as of late I have grown increasingly frustrated with my "raid worth" in the 25-man content. The main reason being that when you look at WWS I am lucky to hit 800 dps. Mind you, I have 32% crit and 2009 RAP unbuffed. One thing I have learned though, is that my efficiency is where I make my money. As survival you likely will never lead your 25-man in DPS, BUUUUT you may lead it in damage done. Which, considering that DPS is not near as impressive as how much you contributed to the night's triumphs, that isn't too bad.

Here is how I compete with our pure DPS spec's and classes:

1) Be diligent - Bring full consumables every night! Try to be very efficient at switching targets on trash. Those extra seconds of dps are crucial to being competitive on the damage output.

2) Live!! - This one is big. Let's consider that our BM hunter does 1050 DPS and I do 800 dps. If he dies just once or twice, then I have no contributed far more damage throughout the night. His 1050dps for only 75% of the time that I did 800 wont hold up on the final damage output.

3) Keep that pet alive! - It is like having a permanent DOT the entire raid. I find that if my pet dies, then I simply wasn't paying attention (obviously a 15k cleave is not my fault!).

4) Shot rotation - This is a survival hunters best way to be sneaky on dps. Most BM hunters use a steady + auto shot macro. Personally, I use one that includes steady, auto, arcane, serpent sting and mutli-shot. This does two things: First, I am not pounding one button the entire raid. Second, I am constantly aware of cooldowns and my surroundings. I may need to save a mage with a sleep or a timely trap. basically, the lack of a macro use really helps me to stay alert.

5) HAX - Cant beat that fire mage in damage output for the raid. A few timely mis-directs will surely solve that issue! (use at your own risk, some guilds frown on this technique)

Those are my top 5 that i can think of now. As survival I try to look at my DPS and realize that:
A) I am helping our 3 Hunters 3 Rogues, Fury Warrior, Enh. Shammy and ret Pally get 250 attack power all night. So, though I may do 800 DPS I am definitely contributing to ALL of their DPS as well.
B) Survival is support. I try to save healers, I can tank a target for 10s or so and I kinda feel like the star sometimes. I help kill the 5 targets, all while saving a priest and a mage. Do people notice, not really (sad, but true), but at least i can take solace in the fact that I am helping everyone, not just thriving on personal glory.

I guess that the moral of this story. As survival I could lead Kara in damage and heroics in damage and even 25-mans in damage. Unfortunately, the glory will still be granted to those who did the most "DPS" for the raid/party. So, I do 2 million damage and our rogue does 1.5 million, but he has 900 DPS to my 800, so he had the better night. Yeah, I guess I have a slight bitterness to gauging your ability to do damage on your DPS number and not how much damage you actually did. Am I wrong? Should I strive to do 1k dps or should I really believe damage done is more important? Maybe I should just spec BM and share in the glory of awesome DPS numbers! :(


Dammerung said...


muahah :P


Pike said...

I always have massive amounts of respect for survival hunters. They may not be doing more DPS than me, the BM hunter, but they are providing awesome buffs and can out-trap me without blinking. And considering that I consider my trapping skills to be one of the things that sets me apart from other hunters-- conceding that crown to Survival Hunters is a big thing =P

TeePee said...

LOL hax... good call :P

When it comes to damage, I'm in the quantity over quality camp. If I can do double your dps but have to sit on my butt most of the time to avoid pulling agro, while you plink away merrily the entire fight and end up doing more damage over-all, you > me, no question (imo).

Nomakk said...

@ Dammerung - Enjoy it as much as possible {I give it a 44 in enjoyment (please see my pet for details on that scale)} and...Hello!

@ Pike - I appreciate the acknowledgement of worth. As much as it hurt my soul when I started raiding I eventually conceded the DPS defeat to my BM brethren. All I want is people to realize that my 800 DPS is only part of my story for this raid! :)

@ teepee - In the end, someone/something dies from damage taken. That's all I am saying. I just get distraught when I hear people on voice praising people's DPS who did 500k less damage for the night. I work hard to be efficient! :)

Steve said...

So true in the damage quantity. I am a BM hunter and i am wanting to make the transition soon, because everyone else in my guild is a BM hunter!! i was directed here from a link to link to link from BRK's blog roll. now that it seems i have found a competent SV hunter, looks like i found a new blog roll to read religiously when i make the transition. My guild is really casual and we finally are farming Gruuls/Kara and going on to SSC... i am thinking we may need some more diver rolls in the hunter family in my guild.

Keep rocking the SV!!
(Horde, Eldre'Thalas)

Nomakk said...

Steve, you will surely enjoy being survival and I promise the content will pour in as I get my thoughts all put together! :)

Nine said...

I'm not exactly sure what to say to this. I'm survival, 0/20/41 (MT and Readiness), and I can easily hit and maintain about 1.2-1.3k DPS with short-term spikes up to 1.6-1.8.

Truth be told, my gear is probably a bit better than yours (T5, some MH bits, badge gear etc.), but I'm not really sure that's THAT much of a difference. I usually dominate both the DPS and Damage Done sections of Recount, though I doubt I'll be able to keep that up once our BM hunters hit the same gear level as me. You never know, though, guess I'll have to wait and see.

Regards, Soulshade of Terenas.

aurance said...

Isn't DPS on most meters averaged over the entire time you're in combat? So shouldn't DPS be directly proportional to total damage done?

Nomakk said...

@ Aurance - you would think it is, but sadly it is not calculated that way. DPS counts your total time doing damage and total damage is not relevant to time.

@Nine - Well, the two BM hunters in my guild both are equally geared to me. The gear difference is exponential for Survival hunters. One thing is for certain though, Readiness is better than a straight agility build. I will be posting on this soon :)